On the front lines of things like manufacturing and complex uh factory environments we're hopefully going to learn what something and some people are doing to be the most successful operations that are adapting what i'll call 3d visualization into this this world we live in a .
Virtual production now if that if that makes sense but please join me again so this is the first in a series please join me again look for announcements you can follow us on our web or linkedin homepages at the end of this discussion there's a few visuals here we'll share the guest contact info feel .
Free also to offer up questions in the chat box we'll try to get to those again we're trying to keep this short and usable to the audience but my man brett'll will handle make sure that i'm aware that there's a q a uh posting today and if you'll uh punch up the uh .
Uh next slide here brett today we're going to combine the experience of a couple of guests we're going to discuss managing operational change um in this new economy before we begin i kind of wanted to talk about i think we bumped ahead a little bit further than i needed to brett i'm sorry .
Sorry about that folks before i even get into these little bullet points i just shared i wanted to find some ideas just just as we get out of the gate again this is our first little broadcast for this when i talk about new virtual economy what i'm getting at here is simply this well your physical plant may or may not .
Be changing right now with pandemics abound there's retirements there's workforce reductions there's a lot of flux in the operational environment and yet those of us who work in that arena are being tasked to run with with fewer people on site yet produced at equal or greater production rates .
Than in the past and this means that we're going to have a gap in personnel that potentially could compromise operational reliability and safety and i share a couple of quotes here just for your knowledge this is out of a 2015 that deloitte and touch did .
There's a recent 2021 that i have available if someone would like it just reach out but i found it interesting that back in 2015 manufacturing executives across the united states and this was a u.s survey i believe were very much in line with the fact .
That there was already a knowledge gap or lack of people capable through training to to actually continue their success and today we know that things have changed even more dramatically so why am i even doing this interview process well i come from a 30 plus year of .
Operating in that operational environment just like my two colleagues here i've worked with for a number of years at different times and my goal here is to try to bring something forward to to all of us who work in that environment is bring usable tools that make life easier for frontline people to get work done .
It's pretty much that simple and i'll kind of emphasize that with a personal observation i ask myself you know why can my kids use their cell phones to navigate anywhere on the planet probably for at least the last decade but but people like us on the front lines that run and fix and keep things .
Running so companies can make money can't use their cell phones to simply get around their employers factory or find things they need to to to find why are we stuck with blueprints and and simple laser measurement in the simplest form are rulers you know we want to discuss that here and that's kind of what this forum is .
Is the desire to connect the most valuable tool an operational employee has which is their eyes to the power of the investments that have already been made into very complex 3d data but share up a little bit next slide so some further recommendations here and then we're going to get into my first .
Discussion with my first guest chris moribito when we speak of managed operational change this is the overview general process that most of us who deal with change in factory ops are familiar with it's a basic seven step the um go on to the next slide if you .
Wouldn't mind brett if we look closer at just one piece of that the educational piece this this gap in knowledge um if we look at that gap it comes down to not only training but retraining or something i like to kind of call continuous commissioning but in this discussion we're going to talk today .
Specifically about this area of managed operational change the educational piece that goes with it and as i say visualization what i'd like the audience to think of in terms of is being able to actually use or act upon 3d data which in the operational environment like what you see here very complex .
Areas can be challenging so so that's kind of setting the table here for what we want to do this is our first the next round we're going to do in this discussion we'll probably focus on visualization and its impact on saving energy in facilities like this that are measurable but but let's move on to .
Introducing our first guest and i'm joined here by a fella i've known for quite a while you can bump to that next there you go uh brett uh chris um let me introduce chris morbido chris and i've known each other as i mentioned many years chris you spent uh well 20 plus probably 30 years plus .
Delivering reality capture portable 3d measurement solutions the really high end of these technologies to a lot of different types of i call them high stress production facilities and manufacturing i mean everything from the smallest precision cnc to building bridges in the experience you and i shared in .
The aec market but today all of this really cool stuff you now are doing things with uh uh for duke energy could you could you just share quickly a little bit about what your mission is with duke yeah absolutely brett go to that live shot if you wouldn't mind .
Yeah thank you thank you for thanks for having me and engaged and um just a little i'll try to do this as quick as i can but um take your time my audience is interested my background is in mechanical engineering that goes back into you know plant modernization design and way back .
When we were literally just just bringing cad using cad at floor um so long you know long time emmy and uh mechanical engineer and 3d metrology has been my world since the early 2000s um you know and um the heyday yeah our team at duke we we provide uh .
3d laser scanning measurement and metrology services which you know are the this metrologists study of of measurement and um science of measurement so we uh we do this for clients inside inside of duke and you know it mainly started with the critical you know nuclear critical um .
Outages um and it's it you know the last few years it's extended into fossil and renewable energy stations wind and you know um gas um mixed cycle combined cycle so now we're expanding you know outside you know basically to .
Cover projects for external you know for customers external to duke um outside now now just to jump in here quick chris as we as we move around this uh pre-treatment facility in a in a 800-plus megawatt power area this is a work obviously that you completed you're familiar with .
When you know you're bringing lots of these technologies together for duke to deliver you know digital information and information about the entire facility and so forth here we're looking at at something you were doing in testing out a lower a different end of that spectrum .
Which is the photogrammetry and this visual end that we're using here can you speak a little bit about what uh what you were doing here and and and what that was as part of sort of the overall of the ops efficiency of the the capture world if you will and brett's just kind of moving around .
Your facility so we basically took um we we were involved in in scanning this entire uh basically the entire facility and that was laser scanning and laser scanning drones all that type of stuff right i mean yeah we did have drones uh that we're capturing up overhead .
And we're uh and then and then we're um using 360 photogrammetry to um really to to help introduce it you know into into duke um into our entire world um and um so this this essentially is the same area that we laser scanned and then i did another area up top that .
Um up on the 150 feet up on a on the top steam deck and um quick question on this chris is is the as the audience kind of peers at this and hopefully it's stabilizing i know it can can be a little jumpy in a webinar but as we look at this chris you know you did you will so far .
Captured this area this pre-treatment area with laser and and with 360. obviously there's needs for both i can just speak a little bit about what you came out of of how how would this photogrammetry piece end in in that helping the high-end engineering that .
Obviously that you're engaged with right the compliance of the facilities and the commissioning and so forth which is well there's often there's going to be areas that are going to be you know they're going to be so tightly complex and we're going to be replacing something in there that has to bolt up into something .
Sure you know so depending on on what the need is in this case you know for training purposes or to uh you know communicate an issue uh let's say we're you know we're seeing a valve that you know we're not getting a pressure reading on um let's let's look into that and then be able to communicate .
You know with a with a note you know um a quick note in in this tool that says hey go i need you to go check this area and it leads them exactly to that area so first they can you know they can um whether they're calling in a vendor to to do that or whether it's right one of their service team needs to go .
Out they can pre-look and preview what what they need you know do we have um an electrical panel we have to get into do we need you know what kind of ppe do we need sure what kind of safety gear are we are we climbing you know how far up are we climbing do we need a .
Lift you know how can we get the information to the right people and then even invite them in to virtually review this area right you know it's interesting chris our focus here was sort of on that knowledge gap and and i think that many folks in the operational environment are unaware that .
Information is simple as we're seeing on the screen you know obviously it took effort of the organization to you know gather it produce it capture it test it etc but when you think then in in terms of a more specific you know when when you use visualization or you can visualize to actually do .
Things can it help deliver more value in your organization do you feel just as an educational tool be it uh long term retrain knowledge retention what are your thoughts there yeah absolutely you know um because it's so fast and you know the the scanning that we do you know it .
Might take eight to ten eleven minutes per scan um this this is i was able to do this whole facility in ten minutes you know with the time of one scan um but both were timid so you end up yeah we're catching everything right right and then if i you know when .
We have this site captured um you know and there is a next you know another project coming up that is a as a higher you know wait let's say we have to replace a steam generator or something large some large pump you know we have uh the ability to go okay .
We need this is what we need to plan whether we're doing you know higher level scanning or um again you know doing a maintenance uh or even having a vendor stop there brett everything everything right now has changed in our world as far as um you know protocols to come in .
To come in on site you know we have vendor meetings now where we're bringing information like this to let them see it firsthand and you know um and literally do you know virtual simulations uh to to say hey this is the these are the avenues that that are safe to move a .
Piece of equipment right out and replace it versus you know taking out you know accidentally or having an issue that has to stop one of the lines you know well it's interesting also as we we're going to take a quick uh segment break here but what i can speak to chris and i the .
The type of facility you're showing there i have extensive experience in being in that type of facility and pre-treatment area um it's self-evident to me as we sit here and talk about it since all of us on the line here are working virtual there's a whole lot of education we .
Could do just simply on how to operate that or fix that that unit or even where to find it and and it seemed that you know i guess that you're seeing not only an operational efficiency and just improving your ability to get this data but uh it sounds like there's opportunity to expand that as .
Is really a true operational education piece is is that kind of your thought i know i'm feeding you an answer there but no yeah i i i just think the opportunities there to you know for especially for customers that are not utilizing something like this uh is to go ahead and start and and it can .
Really um allow um you know safe let's say safe access um you know um of outside or support and just gives everybody in the in the organization just better visualization of what's going on to be able to be able to communicate how do we take care of .
Um this next project you know yeah what do we do you've got virtual controlled access you know for whether it's simulation training familiarity job prep safe you know especially while trying to um create a safe environment protocol for you know for customers employees support .
Service teams and all that that's awesome central right now yeah that's awesome man hey we're going to take a quick break and then we're going to come back and introduce our second guest dan reed here in a moment chris we're going to get back to you as well because we'll have a final thought .
From both our guests as well but we're going to take a little short segment break for a a sound bite advertisement if it's time to step up from the computer get a cup of coffee please do so and then we'll be back at you in about 35 seconds visual plan seeing is believing .
Work easier and safer using 3d visualization if seeing is believing then 3d visualization means taking action use the power of 3d visualization as your visual skeleton key unlocking the doors to faster decision making and operational success approve it protect it fix it teach it .
You will act when you can see it with your own eyes see how you too can maximize the use of 3d visualization check us out at visualplan.net and please follow us on linkedin to track upcoming events that guy sounds familiar to me but let's get back to the interviews .
So next i'd like to introduce another professional a gentleman named dan reed dan and i have worked together as well in some of the high intensity areas of manufacturing dan's a professional engineer worked well over 30 years is what i kind of like to call an embedded contractor across very large complex types of .
Infrastructure refinery downstream refinery industry finished fuels other complex chemical infrastructures and i know dan you know you have yourself touched everything from hazardous waste material disposals on superfund sites to fuel additive processing all of these in an operational fashion .
Across all of north america and wider yet in contrast to chris i know that you have little experience working in operations actually being able to use 3d information to help you can you talk a little bit about what you do right now in the chemical industry and just sort of your thoughts on that .
Those challenges that come along with this knowledge gap okay i'll do so thanks go ahead and launch into this other area okay no no yeah there you go you go ahead dan and answer the question we'll go ahead and i can talk at the same time i think uh i work in i mean just give a little .
Touch a little bit on background i work in a large number of refineries typically i'm working with the oil industry downstream i have worked upstream but one of the things that is a burden in today's world uh is the management of change process has become very cumbersome um .
It can require as many as 20 25 signature in some cases and i'm typically you know stuck in implementing one of these almost every day in some fashion uh three or four years ago we thought we were lucky when we finally digitized everything and it became a digital world what it lacks is 15 of those 25 .
Signatures may want to go put hands on and see what we're talking about in the field as simple as a small chemical injection a small change a lot of those people i'll pick on a metal or just for example is not typically familiar with the plant and we'll spend a lot of time and effort physically going to track .
Down the location we're talking about where the change is going to be made usually that involves me hand holding if there's something like this i've eliminated a number of hours if i publish this to the world and say it's right here you can go find it if you need it .
Typically this is enough detail for most of those people to be satisfied we then take that that speeds up that whole process reduces the manpower involved you can then take that and use that as a training tool because here's what we're talking about we can document what it looked like .
Before we document what it looked like after more so than that it's simply a training document for the operators that are going to be the end users of this equipment you can use them in the approval process for ergonomic reasons etc it has just tremendous power i think of .
The example right now i've got a number of young operators in one plan i oversee some processes for very young the difference between the field operator and the guy on in the control room is one year versus two years experience so neither one is really versed none of them have gone through major shutdowns in the plants .
For example so there are a lot of valves that don't get used but once in three to five years and to get a consensus as to where that valve is and confirm and just be able to have the board operator walk the guy in the field to that position this provides a tremendous tool to be .
Able to do that you know dan when we've we've talked as i've introduced you to kind of a wide range of this technology over the last three or four years as you've sort of become familiar with it and now we can look at something here that's very practical these de-aerator systems .
And you know the challenges of somebody saying well which valve do i pull you know you and i have lived that world how what are your thoughts on why the operations environment has not been able to access this type of data very easily what .
Is there any thought that your just simply doesn't do you have any thoughts on what the obstacles are uh obstacles would include simply they look at it's been extremely expensive in the past speed is obviously an issue or used to be more of an issue than what you're .
Showing right here for example this is very practical um and it's the education level of the end user to be able to use this software it's got to be extremely simple so that you can say this is where i need to be and this is where i need to go and this is the .
Direction i need to be looking and then you know likewise you gotta that has to happen for two people if you're trying to communicate something that are probably not in the same room life would be much simpler yeah that's right by the way i want to give a little credit to uh chris .
Morabito this is also his uh help and duke energy and us allowing to look at some of the outside of this the same facility um um so thanks a lot chris and uh give credit to duke energy for letting us kind of use this for the discussion yep thank you um you know we're i'd love to dig in deeper .
We don't want to keep this real uh deep um can brett could you just flip a kind of to a little bit of summary slide because we're at about the 20-minute mark i know that there's more that we can dive into today but uh but i'd like to just get some final thoughts from you guys we .
You know we're talking a little bit about these different viewpoints which is really awesome to have you both on here and dan you and yourself are very familiar almost as a used term in the refining industry of of moc is if you will and when we look at the overall of .
Operational change and you you consider what we're talking about here visualizing and being able to use this type of of access if you will to information as a trainer can you just speak to what you think impacts could be on the wider area of moc .
Maybe maybe i'll throw that to you dan first just because i know that's intimate in your in your experience as a process i think that i mean the potential is tremendous uh it may be limited by your imagination only to simplify the process because this serves as a tremendous .
Tool to document put everyone on the same page communicate you know where those changes lie what those changes will look like you know then take that and use the same information and incorporate it directly into a .
Training tool for the end users that have to go implement and use that change that uh reduces the amount of effort on everyone's part expedites the whole process typically from my experience when i'm asked you know i do a lot number of specialty chemical .
Applications many times they're put in kind of an emergency process for lack of a better term i can procure pumps and equipment and construct faster than the paperwork and can travel through with the approval process it makes it very difficult even .
In the digital world where everything's moved electronically to get that many people on board who want to visualize who want to you know experience a hands-on whether they're actually in the field or can just see it on their computer screen right that is a tremendous tool .
That's awesome it's it's awesome especially with the timing of our environment i would say chris any thoughts from your end chris you obviously work with change in a different way within a power uh organization uh what are your final thoughts on changing impacts to build on what dan .
Mentioned um i think he you know gets rid of that um kind of that treasure hunt of okay i've got this problem um and you're trying to communicate it to somebody else that you know may not have one bit of of knowledge about where it is or maybe they do but it just .
I think it really cuts that time down uh you know duke is really big we're big on pre-job briefing and pre-job planning you know so um what all do we need to you know to pre-plan and those that are that we're bringing along maybe that haven't done this you can really give them a good training a pre-visual of what what what we're .
Looking at and you know and what you know start to finish uh this is how it's gonna look this these are the parts we're to need to whether it's a maintenance or you know um a replacement whatever that might be the planning part and the you know like dan said .
Having everybody on the same page from the from the get-go and um i think people just we're all visual can i offer one more example of course please um i managed a service organization for a number of years and whenever there was a bid spec coming out if for example i didn't have .
Process diagrams it wasn't worth my travel and many times i had to travel just to visualize a drawing does not show you what's in the field you know the classic example is two parts of a single unit were roughly a mile apart drawing didn't show that .
If you're trying to push chemistries back and forth between these parts that's an awful lot of hoes that you didn't plan for so those types of examples just that this solves that problem instantly well here's the final softball for both you guys and it's basically a yes no but you can certainly comment .
At the early on i said you know i made a comment that retaining knowledge of current you know factory and process ops is really critical right now but i said you know if we don't do something different in how we educate and and keep that knowledge we risk compromising both operational .
Reliability and safety uh do you guys agree or disagree with that that uh that sort of promoted idea that was a true softball i absolutely agree agree there you go that's the whole point you got to get yeses at the end of a discussion how about you chris what do you think .
Yep agree good with you too well listen we're coming up to the end of the time um we still have five minutes for anyone that likes to chime up or raise their hand right now we can we can do a little dabbling but but i want to thank uh both chris moribito could you go to that next slide brett and just show the .
Contact information i want to thank chris and dan just for joining for a little discussion and and hopefully they can uh join again and we can further this discussion we do as i mentioned intend to repeat uh under the process of moc moving .
Forward and just engage in conversation where these types of texts can can really help people like i said early on drive and make their jobs easier on the site and maybe do so without being there as often and and hopefully not compromise safety .
And not compromise uh operational reliability it's a very difficult market so it doesn't look like uh do we have any questions brett does anybody popped up what pm processes do you feel this would be most valuable and where would 360 photos not be valuable .
So let me let me uh so not valuable is a good part of it for you chris and where would the preventative maintenance processes benefit most that might be a good hit for you dan if either one of you wants to take on the question uh i think um you know there are instances where we you know a 16 to an .
Eighth of an inch could could you know if that's not planned out that that could be quite a you know an issue so those are that's where we would rely on the right technology for you know the intent intended outcome you know um so you're saying kind of like in .
What we were just showing chris you know all you use a lot of high-end technology and boy it makes sure that you're engineering correct and you're in spec and you commission that thing to operate but after that visualization tends to be enough to assure that you're staying operating because that's correct .
Is that kind of what what you're getting at well i think you know um you just really we have to look at the the type of accuracy the type of um you know the cost associated if we if we for instance mis miss something you know if we if we take out or have to you know bring .
Down a panel that's running a critical operation then and we bring down a unit um because we didn't plan you know we didn't use the right tool at the right time you know uh that's that's to have all these to have this as is the site-wide um the 360 would be .
Absolutely valuable um and then we decide okay what what is the project that we the best way to accomplish dan i know i know preventative maintenance dan is a big part of yours in my world and in the past maybe and speak a little bit of that because the the number of preventative maintenance .
Tasks that that turn into savings and operational efficiencies enormous right yeah well let's let's touch on the the planning of any kind of maintenance i mean typically 3d visualization lets me without having to go out in the field to understand does the truck fit through the hole it's got to drive through .
Is there utilities handy that i can use the compressed air there that type of thing for my planning purpose job safety analysis or assessments right exactly the same i'm you know are there you know is there a safety shower there or do i need to put a portable one in because near a .
Safety shower is not an eyesight very simple things that this can do without having to invest time to go out in the field i would wager you know i work in a number of refineries and i would say probably one person in five to ten is doing no more when he's in the field than visually .
Confirming something wow so that's a huge manpower investment just to walk out there now i'm i'm still going to stress that at the end of the day the operator over that unit needs to be there with the maintenance people who confirm they're doing exactly the right thing but a lot of that planning can go be .
Done without being in the field with significantly less requirements and if in the planning stage you need to fix xyz valve you can provide pictures of the area you know as part of the work submittal you're several steps ahead of the game yeah you .
Don't want to be walking around one of these places uh like a lost sheep as they say um any anybody any any other questions out there i thought those are great answers anyone else want to chime in brett is there anything else yeah we we have another couple minutes we've got uh one .
Um maybe maybe towards chris or dan um does the ability to share your point clouds uh in the platform provide uh provide value and if so what what type of value would it provide yeah i think probably probably better for chris on that one because i would .
Say dan is really not even engaged that deeply but uh you guys take a shot yeah first off i would i would i would ask is it was it provided or was it created by either scanning you know how is it created uh was it created by photogrammetry or was it .
Created by you know what what type of scanner was it used or was it created with so that i know you know the accuracy level of that and then based on that i think it could really um increase that that confidence of accuracy you know if you're having to measure or .
Take off you know in a certain area that that point cloud could be very very valuable very good very good and then lastly uh maybe for dan and i think you added a little bit to this but maybe answer a little a little bit further during a turndown .
What type of savings would you see uh using visualization play a critical role here and turn down situations oh you're talking turn around you're talking about i mean uh turn around yes oh and turn around the plan i mean i'll turn around for example an .
Oil refinery is planned years in advance the planning for 2025 has started in a number of cases um the details of that the documentation of that throughout you know any kind of visualization process the it was a number of years when i was doing the service side of the business before i started .
Incorporating photographs i mean obviously customers are somewhat sensitive to putting their equipment out in pictures but at the same time if you give a photograph to a maintenance crew in the field they can walk up and visualize they can you know they can walk up and find it .
Easily they can walk up and have a plan pretty well put together so that when that operator comes by you know it's basically this is you know confirming everything and move on and people can go to work that is i i would hate to wager a percentage of the shutdown but it would be a miserable percentage savings well you .
Know yeah you and i have both experienced those you know generally in a turnaround you know obviously because it's been planned so well in advance there are a lot of different stakeholders and all of those stakeholders have to be on a common ground of understanding in .
That complex environment and to date in many cases it's all of those trips back into the units and back to the front of the plant it's all of that process needing to get people together to look at the same thing when in fact visualization today i think really affects that day and the percentages are quite high in time .
Savings i would suspect most assessment and planning could be done virtual from a person's home very much like we were just looking at that live today that's essentially how it can be done if you were working through the process either planning for it or um as you follow through with it .
Right i mean that it's got to be a significant time percentage of travel that's exactly right and i'll use the example of collision if two contractors are tasked to do work in the same area the visualization in advance can recognize those types of collisions and the delays associated with it .
I mean typically it's been my experience in every shutdown ever and i've done way too many of them is it's the unplanned events that bite you that cost you destroy your critical path that mess up the entire shutdown cause the cost overruns et cetera .
Um they're not fun when they're recognized and recognizing even a few of those in advance visualization is by far the best way to do a lot of that um saves you a ton of money and gets you a little more sleep at night it's all good yeah can relate to that sleep is a good .
Thing i don't brett is there any other questions looks like we're clean okay gentlemen i thank you for your time today i thank everyone who was able to get online and listen in i hope you join us again it was fun .
Talking with a couple of colleagues i've known for many years and i hope you guys will uh want to come back and talk again in the future and everybody please look for the next event invite it'll come through linkedin as well as be on our again our website homepage thank you very much .